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Non-fiction?
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DrNefario
Posted 2012-07-17 7:43 AM (#3758)
Subject: Non-fiction?
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It struck me yesterday, that I have two GMRC memoirs in my in-tray - The Way the Future Was by Frederik Pohl and This Is Me, Jack Vance - and I'm wondering whether I should count them towards the GMRC. I have no idea if they're on the site, but I somehow feel like I shouldn't count them. I feel like I ought to be reading their fiction, to get a representation of their work.

What do other people think?

I'm not short of other eligible works, it's just that I had a quick look at the Pohl last night after I finished the book I was reading.
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Administrator
Posted 2012-07-17 9:25 AM (#3761 - in reply to #3758)
Subject: RE: Non-fiction?
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Well, as a practical matter we don't usually have non fiction books in the database so you would not be able to count them, or at least tag them on the site.  The idea of the challenge is to get folks to try some Grand Masters they might have missed and it was always intended to be their fiction.

Having said that, I don't feel particularly strongly about it except that we'd have to decide if we are going to start adding non-fiction books to the database.  My first inclination is not to.  We've been pretty zealously sticking to our fairly narrowly defined mission for years and there is certainly a world of fiction still to be added even if we just stuck to works by the 1,169 authors we already have.

I'm always leary of diluting the content/focus of the site but memoirs from the Grand Masters seems like a reasonable place for an exception to be made.  At work we'd call it "scope creep" and try to ward it off with holy water but surprisingly I'm fairly well disposed to the idea.  Those kind of books can do much to increase our appreciation and understanding of the authors and the genre and that can't be a bad thing in my opinion.  The trade off is that we'd have to shift some focus to finding those books and deciding which to include and that would take some time away from adding new books, lists and awards etc.

If there is enough interest from the community we'd certainly consider going that route so let's hear it.  Who likes the idea of including non-fiction books in the database?  Are you interested in memoirs, genre history and guide books etc.?

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valashain
Posted 2012-07-17 1:07 PM (#3767 - in reply to #3758)
Subject: Re: Non-fiction?
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Well, if the author is in the database already, I don't see why those titles shouldn't be added. Then again, I don't really advocated adding all of Isaac Asimov's non fiction (to use an extreme example). Biographies or histories of the genre, that sort of thing would certainly interest me.
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Engelbrecht
Posted 2012-07-18 7:34 AM (#3779 - in reply to #3758)
Subject: RE: Non-fiction?
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I'm all for it.  For one thing, there are already a few in the database, thus setting a precedent.  But more importantly, it seems to me that it would serve the goals of the site.  WWE is a resource for readers, helping them to find and learn about great genre books to read.  Lists, "Stats at a Glance" (icons), reviews, blog links, all exist to help readers identify and learn about prospective reads of interest.  Additionally, and as a further aid to readers, the Resources area of the site includes a great amount of "ancillary" information on such things as conventions, podcasts, clubs, etc.  Why not give readers yet another way to educate themselves?

In fact, I'll go further and suggest that a special list or resource section be set up that is dedicated to nonfiction books.  To the best of my knowledge, there isn't much out there that covers this sort of thing.  It could be quite a unique draw for WWE.

Like DrNefario and valashain, I'd limit nonfiction content to such things as history, memoirs, biographies, criticism, etc.

A couple of thoughts on the existing nonfiction books in the database: Broderick & Di Filippo's Science Fiction: The 101 Best Novels 1985-2010 is in the database and is the basis for one of WWE's lists, however, Pringle's Science Fiction: The Hundred Best Novels and Modern Fantasy: The Hundred Best Novels are the basis for two other of WWE's lists but are not in the database, something that should probably be rectified.

Aldiss' Billion Year Spree (1973), 339 pages is in the database, but this book was expanded and essentially replaced by his superior Trillion Year Spree (1986), 511 pages, which is not in the database, again, something that should probably be rectified.

 

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justifiedsinner
Posted 2012-07-18 9:56 AM (#3783 - in reply to #3758)
Subject: Re: Non-fiction?
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I think you would have to be careful that the non-fiction is related to SF and not other subjects. For example I don't think that Asimov's book on Shakespeare's plays would be applicable. On the other hand Michael Chabon's Maps & Legends and Margaret Atwood's In Other Worlds would be.
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Rhondak101
Posted 2012-07-18 10:18 AM (#3786 - in reply to #3758)
Subject: Re: Non-fiction?
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I agree that some collections of essays by SF authors already in the database (like Le Guin's Language of the Night) memoirs and autobiography (like the ones listed in the original post by DrNefario) and books of analysis that are of wide scope (Pringle's Aldiss's) have a place here. I'm not sure lots of biographies of SF authors or monographs by SF scholars on one author or a narrow theme do belong here. It would be a big job evaluating those kinds of books.
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jfrantz
Posted 2012-07-18 11:20 PM (#3799 - in reply to #3758)
Subject: Re: Non-fiction?
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I have often toyed with the idea of looking for some SF related non-fiction but I am always apprehensive about where to start. Some resources here would be great, even if they were limited to the Grand Masters or some other narrowly defined scope. That being said, if I were really concerned, I could get my lazy butt on the forum and ask people and I'm sure there would be no shortage of guidance.
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dustydigger
Posted 2012-07-19 1:04 AM (#3800 - in reply to #3799)
Subject: Re: Non-fiction?
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I like Engelbrecht's idea of having a list in the resources section .In one of my groups someone kindly posted a list of interesting and informative NF books. - http://www.sfsignal.com/archives/2012/07/mind-meld-non-fiction-book... -
Ha,just gazing at the list,and found the instigator on MindMeld was Jeremy!.Thank you! Mike Resnick's list brought back some good memories.I remember back in the 80's whiling away an 8 hour bus trip from London to my home being in equal parts fascinated and annoyed by Aldiss' Billion Year Spree,and muttering so much the young boy in the next seat couldnt help but comment.It turned out he was a SF fan,and we spent some enjoyable time discussing books.He was into hard SF,and was tearing out his hair at the way Doc Smith would have some brilliant technology that was the ultimate,could go no further,then in the next book would show the next super- duper new improved version!It annoyed him,but I thought it was very funny.Dear old Doc Smith.I must squeeze in the Skylark books next month.
One book mentioned in the list which I could never find back then is the Kingsley Amis New Maps of Hell.Maybe someday I will get round to it now I have been reminded.I see it on Amazon for $9.


Edited by dustydigger 2012-07-19 1:30 AM
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Administrator
Posted 2012-07-20 1:33 PM (#3833 - in reply to #3800)
Subject: Re: Non-fiction?
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So it looks like everyone is up for a bit of non-fiction.  Very good.  We'll start getting some of these books you've mentioned into the database.
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chuhl
Posted 2012-07-20 3:24 PM (#3838 - in reply to #3758)
Subject: Re: Non-fiction?
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I've always enjoyed Asimov's memoirs and have gone back to them many times. Not only for the information about his life and science fiction -- I think stylistically they're among the best things he's written.
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