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Scott Laz |
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Uber User Posts: 263 Location: Gunnison, Colorado | Awesome! Thanks, guys. There were a few of those I'd been wanting to add to my reading list... | ||
Engelbrecht |
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Uber User Posts: 454 | Wow, the WWE Books Reviewed is awesome! Turns out that there are more than 500 books represented - lots of reviews to read! I keep thinking about posting some reviews here, but always seem to find myself intimidated by the tremendous quality of the reviews I keep reading. That, and once I finish a book, the siren song of the next book sweeps me away - it's an addiction! Props also for the Pringle Modern Fantasy - jynnandtonnyx waves a mouse and magics weeks into days - thanks!! I'm so happy that the Angela Carter book is here now - The Infernal Desire Machines of Dr. Hoffman is such a GREAT book!!!! The Bridge, Who Made Stevie Crye?, Lanark, The Eyes of the Overworld, all great new additions. The book from the Pringle list that I'm most looking forward to reading is Helprin's Winter's Tale - one of these years I'll get to it - so much reading to do... BTW, when you get a chance a notice for these should be posted to the New Features & News forum - all this hard work should be recognized. | ||
Scott Laz |
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Uber User Posts: 263 Location: Gunnison, Colorado | Yes, the Books Reviewed section is a great addition! Should be a great resource when looking to add to the reading list... @Engelbrecht: The fact that some people spend way too much time writing reviews :-) shouldn't deter anyone! A brief comment can be just as valuable, and I like to see multiple reactions to a book. I'd be especially interested in the opinion of anyone who has read as much as you have, and have benefited from your recommendations and comments in these forums as I continue down the fantasy road... Going back to the possible lists above, I've been using Cawthorn/Moorcock as a guide for a couple of years. There are some oddities there, and books that some will question as to whether they're really fantasy (e.g., Moby Dick!), but it adds some interesting diversity. The new SF 1985-2010 list seems to be getting some respect, so I'd like to get going on that at some point as well. Another source I haven't seen mentioned is the Bloomsbury Good Reading Guides "100 Must Read" series. The Science Fiction Novel and Fantasy Novel guides by Stephen Andrews and Nick Rennison are quite good and wide-ranging. Something to consider when you run out of other things to do! :-) | ||
Deven Science |
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Uber User Posts: 202 Location: Sacramento, California | I keep thinking about posting some reviews here, but always seem to find myself intimidated by the tremendous quality of the reviews I keep reading. That, and once I finish a book, the siren song of the next book sweeps me away - it's an addiction! I used to write bigger reviews here, but that comes in waves. After a while, it felt tiring, but I do love the idea of clicking on a book and seeing several reviews to look over, so I try to give at least a couple of quick sentences on anything I read. That quick review may help you decide not to waste your time, or to go ahead and try it out. | ||
Administrator |
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Admin Posts: 4003 Location: Dallas, Texas | Glad to hear you guys like the new lists! I'm stoked about both of them. The Pringle list because I want to balance out the content on the site a bit more. Fantasy lags behind on the awards and lists and Horror is much farther behind but it's still a new addition to the site so I don't feel too bad about that right now. I like having both Pringle lists now and I'm excited to be adding the new SF list that picks up where Pringle left off. I wonder if there will be a continuation on his Modern Fantasy list too? Anyway, when Jynnandtonnyx saw how close we were to completing another list he wasted no time. The books reviewed list is something we should have done long ago but never really thought of it. The GMRC was the catylist. We've been getting a ton of great reviews but, more importantly, it's brought in a bunch of new folks to our little community! A lot of these new members are very generously sharing their old reviews too so the numbers just keep climbing. When we passed 800 reviews(!) the other day we just had to do something. Luckily the pages we built for the series list adapted easily for the reviews so we were able to turn that around really fast. Credit to whargoul for the coding! As for the reviews, I agree with Scott and Deven. There's room for all kinds of reviews on WWEnd. I like a big chunky review that I can sink my teeth into but I also appreciate the short reviews and what I call "opinion pieces" where you get "This book is over-rated. You should read X instead." Those are the kind you get from your buddies over beers and they're nice when you just want to get the straight dope or you don't have time to read somethig that long. I know what you mean about being a little intimidated by some of the reviews around here. Man, I can't write 'em like that either. But here's the thing, if you've got something to say about a book, just get it out there! Somebody will read it and glean somethig from it. For example, Scott writes a bad ass review like for his Forays series and I just eat that up like a lot of other folks. But some people will look at that 12 paragraph review and just be turned off by the length. They'll skim through or look for something more like DivineNanny's reviews which are much shorter but still high quality. It's all good as far as I'm concerned. The more variety like that we have the happier everyone will be. I'll say one more thing and then stop - I've already gone on too long. It's an interesting exercise to put your thoughts down on "paper" for others to see. It can really help you work out your own ideas and reactions to a book in a way that you can't get from just thinking about it by yourself. You might be surprised at how it comes out if you give it a go! | ||
Administrator |
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Admin Posts: 4003 Location: Dallas, Texas | @Scott Laz: I've not heard of the Bloomsbury Guides but they sound interesting. I'll look that one up. Sounds like a new list item to me | ||
htaccess |
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Veteran Posts: 207 | Thanks for adding, Modern Fantasy: The 100 Best Novels, keep them coming @Scott Do you have the book lists for Bloomsbury Good Reading Guides? | ||
dustydigger |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 1031 Location: UK | Dave,it was so reassuring to read your comments about reviewing.When I have looked at some of the reviews I am so intimidated by their quality,that I darent put finger to posting! But its encouraging to hear that we can produce just short sort of comments which can be of use to readers,Also good to know we can produce reviews on older reads too.I am totally swamped with books of all kinds at the moment,SF is a pretty new minor part ,and I am doing book challenges on Shelfari that have me tied to reading no less than 100 books -crime,paranormal,general fiction,young adult,junior classics,vintage crime,manga,historical etc( you name it ,I read it,apart from war books!).but my love for SF has been reignited,and surely later in the year I will take part more.This is an absolutely wonderful site,I keep finding more great features(the latest was listing my series.That is cool,but adding lot more books to my TBR lists...sigh... My only problem with this site? Nobody posts! I feel a bit stupid at times posting something,and no one answers.I honestly think members give and take is essential to keep a group vibrant and active,how sad so few want to get involved.Scott,Jedi Timothy,Rhondak, and of course Dave our admin,you are heroes. Perhaps you need a general thread,something as simple as ''What are you reading in June?'',to get people posting and replying.Sorry if I am stepping on any toes here,but I am a regular on Shelfari,where every group has such a thread,and it is always very popular and active.Just passing thoughts,folks,but such a thread could be very lively and productive,in getting all those potential posters to WAKE UP and support this most excellent website. OK,there's my rant of the day concluded,a very common occurence with me! ;0) | ||
Scott Laz |
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Uber User Posts: 263 Location: Gunnison, Colorado | @htaccess: Well, you asked for it: Formatting doesn't look too good, so I tried attached a documents that should be easier to peruse... Frankenstein Shelley, Mary 1818 Journey to the Center of the Earth Verne, Jules 1864 Time Machine, The Wells, H. G. 1895 Island of Dr. Moreau, The Wells, H. G. 1896 War of the Worlds, The Wells, H. G. 1898 Princess of Mars, A Burroughs, Edgar Rice 1912 Lost World, The Doyle, Arthur Conan 1912 Brave New World Huxley, Aldous 1932 Black Gods and Scarlet Dreams Moore, C. L. 1933-40 Legion of Time, The Williamson, Jack 1938 Orphans of the Sky Heinlein, Robert A. 1941 Fury Kuttner, Henry 1947 Triplanetary Smith, E. E. "Doc" 1948 Nineteen Eighty-Four Orwell, George 1949 Earth Abides Stewart, George 1949 I, Robot Asimov, Isaac 1950 Martian Chronicles, The Bradbury, Ray 1950 Voyage of the Space Beagle, The Van Vogt, A. E. 1950 Demolished Man, The Bester, Alfred 1952 This Island Earth Jones, Raymond F. 1952 Foundation Asimov, Isaac 1953 Fahrenheit 451 Bradbury, Ray 1953 Childhood's End Clarke, Arthur C. 1953 Bring the Jubilee Moore, Ward 1953 More Than Human Sturgeon, Theodore 1953 I Am Legend Matheson, Richard 1954 Stars My Destination, The Bester, Alfred 1956 Midwich Cuckoos, The Wyndham, John 1957 Case of Conscience, A Blish, James 1958 Immortality Inc. Sheckley, Robert 1958 Languages of Pao, The Vance, Jack 1958 Starship Troopers Heinlein, Robert A. 1959 Canticle for Leibowitz, A Miller, Walter M., Jr. 1959 Rogue Moon Budrys, Algis 1960 Reality Dysfunction, The Hamilton, Peter F. 1960 Solaris Lem, Stanislaw 1961 Houthouse Aldiss, Brian 1962 Drowned World, The Ballard, J. G. 1962 Clockwork Orange, A Burgess, Anthony 1962 Man Who Fell to Earth, The Tevis, Walter 1963 Genocides, The Disch, Thomas M. 1965 Dune Herbert, Frank 1965 Final Programme, The Moorcock, Michael 1965 Make Room! Make Room! Harrison, Harry 1966 Flowers for Algernon Keyes, Daniel 1966 This Immortal [And Call Me Conrad] Zelazny, Roger 1966 Ticket That Exploded, The Burroughs, William S. 1967 Norstrilia Smith, Cordwainer 1964-68 Nova Delaney, Samuel R. 1968 Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? Dick, Philip K. 1968 Pavane Roberts, Keith 1968 Heroes and Villains Carter, Angela 1969 Ubik Dick, Philip K. 1969 Beast That Shouted Love at the Heart of the World, The Ellison, Harlan 1969 Lovers, The Farmer, Philip Jose 1969 Left Hand of Darkness, The Le Guin, Ursula K. 1969 Man in the Maze, The Silverberg, Robert 1969 Slaughterhouse-Five Vonnegut, Kurt 1969 Ringworld Niven, Larry 1971 Sheep Look Up, The Brunner, John 1972 Other Days, Other Eyes Shaw, Bob 1972 Iron Dream, The Spinrad, Norman 1972 Roadside Picnic Strugatsky, Arkady & Boris 1972 Best of John W. Campbell, The Campbell, John W. 1973 Continuous Katherine Mortenhoe, The Compton, D. G. 1974 Forever War, The Haldeman, Joe 1974 Centauri Device, The Harrison, M. John 1974 Dispossessed, The Le Guin, Ursula K. 1974 Guernica Night Malzberg, Barry N. 1974 Female Man, The Russ, Joanna 1975 Jonah Kit, The Watson, Ian 1975 Garments of Caen, The Bayley, Barrington J. 1976 Man Plus Pohl, Frederik 1976 Where Late the Sweet Birds Sang Wilhelm, Kate 1976 Involution Ocean Sterling, Bruce 1977 Timescape Benford, Gregory 1980 City Come A-Walkin' Shirley, John 1980 Shadow of the Torturer, The Wolfe, Gene 1980 Anubis Gates, The Powers, Tim 1983 Tik-Tok Sladek, John 1983 Neuromancer Gibson, William 1984 Dr. Adder Jeter, K. W. 1984 Glamour, The Priest, Christopher 1984 Blood Music Bear, Greg 1985 Ancient of Days Bishop, Michael 1985 Ender's Game Card, Orson Scott 1985 Journal of Nicholas the American, The Kennedy, Leigh 1986 Life During Wartime Shepard, Lucius 1987 Player of Games, The Banks, Iain M. 1988 Synners Cadigan, Pat 1991 Stations of the Tide Swanwick, Michael 1991 China Mountain Zhang McHugh, Maureen 1992 Red Mars Robinson, Kim Stanley 1992 Snow Crash Stephenson, Neal 1992 Fire Upon the Deep, A Vinge, Vernor 1992 Doomsday Book Willis, Connie 1992 Permutation City Egan, Greg 1994 Moonseed Baxter, Steven 1998 Super-Cannes Ballard, J. G. 2000 Altered Carbon Morgan, Richard 2002 FANTASY She Haggard, H. Rider 1887 Wood Beyond the World, The Morris, William 1894 Lilith MacDonald, George 1895 Wonderful Wizard of Oz, The Baum, L. Frank 1900 Lost Continent, The Hyne, C. J. Cutcliffe 1900 Man Who Was Thursday, The Chesterton, G. K. 1908 Wind in the Willows, The Grahame, Kenneth 1908 Tarzan of the Apes Burroughs, Edgar Rice 1912 Voyage to Arcturus, A Lindsay, David 1920 Worm Ouroboros, The Eddison, E. R. 1922 King of Elfland's Daughter, The Dunsany, Lord 1924 Ship of Ishtar, The Merritt, A. 1924 Lud-in-the-Mist Mirrlees, Hope 1924 Orlando Woolf, Virginia 1928 War in Heaven, The Williams, Charles 1930 Lost Horizon Hilton, James 1933 Circus of Dr. Lao, The Finney, Charles G. 1935 Hour of the Dragon, The (aka Conan the Conqueror) Howard, Robert E. 1935 Green Child, The Read, Sir Herbert 1935 At the Mountains of Madness Lovecraft, H. P. 1936 Hobbit, The Tolkien, J. R. R. 1937 Sword in the Stone, The White, T. H. 1938 Islandia Wright, Austin Tappan 1942 Comet in Moominland Jansson, Tove 1946 Titus Groan [Gormenghast Trilogy] Peake, Meryn 1946 Silverlock Myers, John Myers 1949 Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, The [Narnia] Lewis, C. S. 1950 Dying Earth, The Vance, Jack 1950 Broken Sword, The Anderson, Poul 1954 Lord of the Rings, The Tolkien, J. R. R. 1954-55 Dandelion Wine Bradbury, Ray 1957 Annotated Alice, The Carroll, Lewis [ed. Martin Gardner] 1960 Weirdstone of Brisingamen, The Garner, Alan 1960 Serpent, The [Atlan] Gaskell, Jane 1963 Over Sea, Under Stone [Dark Is Rising] Cooper, Susan 1965 Master and Margarita, The Bulgakov, Mikhail 1967 Last Unicorn, The Beagle, Peter S. 1968 Wizard of Earthsea, A [Earthsea] Le Guin, Ursula K. 1968 Feast Unknown, A Farmer, Philip Jose 1969 Black Gods (aka Jirel of Joiry) Moore, C. L. 1969 Anita Roberts, Keith 1970 Grendel Gardner, John 1971 Pastel City, The [Viriconium] Harrison, M. John 1971 Swords and Deviltry Leiber, Fritz 1971 Watership Down Adams, Richard 1972 Invisible Cities Calvino, Italo 1972 Elric of Melnibone [Eternal Champion] Moorcock, Michael 1972 Nine Princes in Amber [Chronicles of Amber] Zelazny, Roger 1972 Kleinzeit Hoban, Russell 1974 Forgotten Beasts of Eld, The McKillip, Patricia A. 1974 Book of Sand, The Borges, Jorge Luis 1975 Compleat Enchanter, The de Camp, L. Sprague & Fletcher Pratt 1975 Great Victorian Collection, The Moore, Brian 1975 Peace Wolfe, Gene 1975 Malacia Tapestry, The Aldiss, Brian 1976 Dragon and the George, The [Dragon Knight] Dickson, Gordon R. 1976 Sword of Shanarra, The Brooks, Terry 1977 Lord Foul's Bane [Chronicles of Thomas Covenant] Donaldson, Steven R. 1977 Merlin Nye, Robert 1978 Bloody Chamber, The Carter, Angela 1979 Watchtower [Chronicle of Tornor] Lynn, Elizabeth A. 1979 Drawing of the Dark, The Powers, Tim 1979 Land of Laughs, The Carroll, Jonathan 1980 Lord Valentine's Castle [Majipoor] Silverberg, Robert 1980 Little, Big Crowley, John 1981 Mists of Avalon Bradley, Marion Zimmer 1982 Pawn of Prophecy [The Belgariad] Eddings, David 1982 Magician [Riftwar Saga] Feist, Raymond E. 1982 Gunslinger, The [Dark Tower] King, Stephen 1982 Nifft the Lean Shea, Michael 1982 Colour of Magic, The [Discworld] Pratchett, Terry 1983 Legend [Drenai] Gemmell, David 1984 Mythago Wood Holdstock, Robert 1984 Wizard of the Pigeons Lindholm, Megan 1985 Warrior Who Carried Life, The Ryman, Geoff 1985 Homunculus Blaylock, James 1986 Howl's Moving Castle Jones, Diana Wynne 1986 City in the Autumn Stars, The Moorcock, Michael 1986 Weaveworld Barker, Clive 1987 Compleat Traveller in Black, The Brunner, John 1987 Replay Grimwood, Ken 1987 Book of the Damned, The [Secret Book of Paradys] Lee, Tanith 1988 Dragonbone Chair, The [Memory, Sorrow and Thorn] Williams, Tad 1988 Eye of the World, The [The Wheel of Time] Jordan, Robert 1990 Tigana Kay, Guy Gavriel 1990 Good Omens Pratchett, Terry and Neil Gaiman 1990 Beauty Tepper, Sheri 1991 Iron Dragon's Daughter, The Swanwick, Michael 1993 Mercury Kavan, Anna 1994 Northern Lights (aka The Golden Compass) [His Dark Materials] Pullman, Philip 1995 Neverwhere Gaiman, Neil 1996 Game of Thrones, A [Song of Ice and Fire] Martin, George R. R. 1996 Wind-Up Bird Chronicle, The Murakami, Haruki 1997 Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone Rowling, J. K. 1997 Gardens of the Moon [Malazan Books of the Fallen] Erikson, Steven 1999 Perdido Street Station [New Crobuzon] Mieville, China 2000 Across the Nightingale Floor [Tales of the Otori] Hearn, Lian 2002 Emperor of Dreams, The (collection) Smith, Clark Ashton 2002 Inkheart Funke, Cornelia 2003 Jonathan Strange and Mr. Morrell Clarke, Susanna 2004 Edited by Scott Laz 2012-06-03 5:53 PM Attachments ---------------- Bloomsbury Guides.docx (47KB - 1 downloads) | ||
htaccess |
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Veteran Posts: 207 | Thanks Scott. According to this blog post: http://www.sfwriter.com/2009/08/anatomy-of-rjs.html by Robert J. Sawyer, there is a "best of" list included in "Anatomy of Wonder: A Critical Guide to Science Fiction", does anyone know the contents of this list? Its probably different for different editions. | ||
Administrator |
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Admin Posts: 4003 Location: Dallas, Texas | Here are the missing books from those lists:
Science Fiction
Not too bad.
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iftyzaidi |
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Member Posts: 11 Location: Karachi, Pakistan | Real chuffed about the Pringle list! Thanks! | ||
Administrator |
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Admin Posts: 4003 Location: Dallas, Texas | dustydigger - 2012-06-03 4:38 PM Dave,it was so reassuring to read your comments about reviewing.When I have looked at some of the reviews I am so intimidated by their quality,that I darent put finger to posting! I'm glad to see you've posted some reviews now! Very nice addtions to the site by the way - thanks! That wasn't so bad was it? My only problem with this site? Nobody posts! I feel a bit stupid at times posting something,and no one answers.I honestly think members give and take is essential to keep a group vibrant and active,how sad so few want to get involved.Scott,Jedi Timothy,Rhondak, and of course Dave our admin,you are heroes. Perhaps you need a general thread,something as simple as ''What are you reading in June?'',to get people posting and replying. Thank you for sticking in there and continuing to post in the forum! You've singlehandedly jump started the whole shebang and we're just thrilled that folks have been responding to your efforts. The ''What are you reading in June?'' thread was so obvious we just never thought to start one ourselves. It's such a pleasure to see so many comments every day and all the great threads! We're finally getting enough members to sustain the conversation in the forum and your arrival was the catalyst get things rolling. Many thanks from the whole team and, indeed, I think I can say from the whole WWEnd community. | ||
valashain |
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Uber User Posts: 1465 Location: The Netherlands | I know you are busy n such but this list might be worth adding. http://fantasymistressworks.wordpress.com/2012/07/12/fantasy-mistre... | ||
dustydigger |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 1031 Location: UK | Why Dave,thanks for the kind words! All you needed was ,to be inelegant,a kick up the backside! lol...no be polite Dusty - a wakeup call Seriously though,sharing knowledge and recommendations doubles the pleasure of reading.In real life it can be difficult to find fellow bookaholics,and one of the joys online is being able to share with others who have the same addiction.I hope some of the other members hiding away with their booklists will come and join the fun.I have truly learned so much since joining this group.Glad so many are joining in.I was very pleased to see almost all the Usual Suspects taking part in the genre game,its going down a treat.Of course it has already added several books to the TBR.Thanks everyone for supporting it! | ||
Administrator |
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Admin Posts: 4003 Location: Dallas, Texas | valashain - 2012-07-19 10:13 AM I know you are busy n such but this list might be worth adding. http://fantasymistressworks.wordpress.com/2012/07/12/fantasy-mistressworks-fifty/[/QUOTE] An interesting list that's certainly worth adding to the site. We're a bit off the pace here though - short 30 books of the 50:
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Administrator |
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Admin Posts: 4003 Location: Dallas, Texas | dustydigger - 2012-07-20 12:46 PM Why Dave,thanks for the kind words! I was very pleased to see almost all the Usual Suspects taking part in the genre game,its going down a treat. You are most welcome. I really like the genre game thread too. Easy enough for anybody to jump in. Now we need to see about getting the Usual Suspects list to grow a bit longer. | ||
splunge52 |
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Member Posts: 14 Location: Rhode Island | I have a couple suggestions for some WWEnd inspired book lists. How about "The 50 most read by members of WWEnd". Of course it would be ever changeing. or "The 50 Highest rated books by members of WWEnd". There would have to be a minimum of ratings to qualify. | ||
Deven Science |
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Uber User Posts: 202 Location: Sacramento, California | splunge52 - 2012-11-21 5:37 PM How about "The 50 most read by members of WWEnd". Of course it would be ever changeing. or "The 50 Highest rated books by members of WWEnd". There would have to be a minimum of ratings to qualify. I actually really like these ideas! The second one is a good one because that gives you a peer-reviewed list of essentials, according to folks like yourself. These might already be viewable through one of the stat settings, but I do like the idea of a page on the site that shows the top stats. Highest rated, most read, most reviewed, etc. | ||
Administrator |
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Admin Posts: 4003 Location: Dallas, Texas | @splunge52: These are, indeed, some great ideas. We've been kicking around the highest rated books list idea for some time. The main issue is coming up with a suitable formula for determining the list. @Deven Science: Most read and most reviewed would be simple lists to build since that is just straight data. I'll talk with the team and see what we can do about all these ideas. It may be some time before we get to them as we're gearing up for next years reading challenge right now. | ||
htaccess |
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Veteran Posts: 207 | As I have suggested in the past, where you have lists that are changing you can have editions which you can then publish periodically. "The 50 most read by members of WWEnd - 2012 edition" The benefit of this is that when a new edition comes out it creates interest because people want to see what books are on the rise and which are fading. Think pop charts. | ||
Izzy4real |
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New User Posts: 2 | Awesome site! If I could suggest one more category of top works for your consideration, it would be "translated foreign works". In particular I'm thinking of the well translated and well read Russian author Sergei Lukyanenko's NightWatch series. There are 4 books in the series -- Nightwatch, Daywatch, Twilight Watch, and Last Watch. All are outstanding, somewhat out of the horror, magic, and vampire genres. Thanks. | ||
Administrator |
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Admin Posts: 4003 Location: Dallas, Texas | Izzy4real - 2012-12-08 9:19 AM Awesome site! If I could suggest one more category of top works for your consideration, it would be "translated foreign works". In particular I'm thinking of the well translated and well read Russian author Sergei Lukyanenko's NightWatch series. There are 4 books in the series -- Nightwatch, Daywatch, Twilight Watch, and Last Watch. All are outstanding, somewhat out of the horror, magic, and vampire genres. Thanks. Hey Izzy4real, Welcome to WWEnd! I'm glad you like the site. Let me know if you have any questions and thanks for the suggestion. We have a long tradition of great suggestions from out members that turn into features on the site. Translated work is something I'm very interested in highlighting on the site. Awhile back I went looking for an award or list to add to the site but there was nothing out there that we could work with. Now there's an award, Science Fiction and Fantasy Translation Award, but it's brand new so only has a few books in it thus far. If you know of an extensive list from a credible source please point us to it. The thing about these lists is they need to have a big name or organization behind them to get people to sit up and take notice. I've added the Night Watch series to our overlooked books list in the mean time. Cheers! | ||
htaccess |
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Veteran Posts: 207 | Its high time worldswithoutend produced a list so it can be classed as a big name organisation like the other list producers out there! | ||
htaccess |
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Veteran Posts: 207 | Oh, and the Fantasy Mistressworks Fifty gets my vote for adding to the lists, looks like a good one. | ||
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